‘It hits a nerve’ – director Garth Davis talks Foe

Addy Fong interviewed Garth Davis about his new film, Foe, and checked out the movie ahead of their chat:

Garth Davis’ latest, Foe, is a dramatic science fiction film featuring a star-studded cast consisting of Saoirse Ronan, Paul Mescal, and Aaron Pierre. These three actors provide stellar performances.

One of Davis’ directorial strengths is in exploring relationships, and Foe teeters on the complexity of relationships, perceptions, and humanity’s fragile link to the natural world or the lack thereof.

Foe presents to audiences an interesting premise, for older audiences it provides confronting commentary on the responsibility we must take in creating an almost inhabitable world, and for younger audiences it paints a bleak outlook of the future, a world which is slowly dying due to the actions of prior generations. Of course, unlike other films, this isn’t a ‘popcorn movie’. Davis explains, ‘There’s going to be some confronting shit to deal with, you’re going to have your prejudices and assumptions, they’re all going to be challenged and tipped on their head.’

These prejudices and assumptions are what I discussed with Davis in our chat, where he clarified certain assumptions and misconceptions I had about the film after a viewing, because initially I had perceived, due to casting, Foe as a love story between two characters of a particular ethnicity interrupted by an outsider of a different ethnicity. Clearly in the context of our world where things are interpreted and scrutinised, this point I raised may have been a slight point of contention between the two of us, but I find critical discussion between filmmakers always helpful to improve one’s work. We agreed that audiences all interpret films and characters differently based on personal experience and unfortunately the film’s casting just fell into an area of misinterpretation, an aspect I’ve read other writers have touched on in other articles I’ve read.

Perhaps the difficulty of presenting audiences with such a multitude of complex themes within a story is that most of audiences will watch a film at its most basic level and interpret it in its most simple form. It could be said perhaps, despite the intentionality of most writer-directors, many misinterpret a filmmaker’s intension and weave in personal bias and audiences find it difficult to process too many complicated themes within a story. Perhaps my own intellect is lacking, or I just felt overwhelmed by the complexity of ideas presented. Foe felt like it was a simple case of too many ideas or themes for your average viewer to comprehend. 

Davis was generous enough to spend time with me and explain his intensions behind creating Foe, he was passionate in explaining his adaption of Iain Reid’s novel, in explaining the strong on-screen visuals and world he created, and the conflict between both the past anchoring his characters and the future of which they attempt to look forward to despite being in a world currently filled with despair. The film is filled with many elements of science fiction, a star-studded cast, and if I’m honest, Foe isn’t a bad watch it just felt at times like it lacked something and at times felt a little cliched. Despite all the promising elements this film is made up of, and perhaps in an attempt to appear different and challenge prejudice, Foe felt like other science fiction films I’ve seen before, which is a little unfortunate as this was not Davis’ intention. I’m grateful for the clarity provided in my interview, where I learnt more about how Davis went about adapting the original source material which I found insightful. 

Hi Garth. This is the third feature you’ve directed, and you’re credited as Foe’s director, writer, and producer. How has it been stepping into these different roles? 

For me it wasn’t anything hugely different, I’ve done a lot of this stuff in my previous work. What was new for me was that I was involved with the film from the beginning of script development right through to the selling of the project. I got to sell the film with my own words and passion, I found that really great. I’ve really enjoyed the process a lot. To be involved in all the discussions around changes, material tweaks, just being a part of those conversations, I’ve found very, very helpful.

I believe Foe is filmed in Australia, because in the outdoor scenes you can see some iconic Australian trees, eucalypts, in the background. But the source material, the story itself, is written by Canadian author Iain Reid, and you’ve cast two Irish leads, Saoirse Ronan and Paul Mescal. Could you speak about this varied hodgepodge of different cultural elements and the intention behind this?

I think every single movie you see is a hodgepodge of different nationalities so there’s nothing really unusual happening here. When I screened this film in the States they had no idea it was Australia, they thought it was a very believable Midwest set in the future. I guess Australians have a keener eye when they watch the film. There are eucalyptus trees everywhere in America, all through Los Angeles, everywhere, it’s not a tree specific to Australia. So obviously in the future they’re going to dominate a lot of parts of America so personally it’s not something I worry about. The fact that they’re stripped of leaves you could argue they were oak trees or anything, in some regards. What is great about using the Australian landscape is that it, it was a way to bring something real to audiences that represented an environment that was under distress. As you know, the Australian landscape does have that prehistoric feel and the Earth was an important thing to feel in my story. Most of these near future stories are all matte paintings invented by artists whereas in all my work, I want audiences to have a direct connection with something real. The reason I chose Australia was purposeful, it was to bring to audiences a world in distress in this landscape, so you could feel it. In terms of the cultural differences, at the end of the day, you never know who you’re going to cast. Saoirse Ronan was the right person because of her spirit, because of her acting ability, she had something that shines through that’s not about acting, so she’s a very magical person and that for me is the most important thing. These actors play different ethnicities all the time, different accents all the time, so that was just a happy accident, I guess. And the fact that it’s set in America is good because that’s the center of the capitalist world and kind of the theme of our story but to your point with Terrence coming, having an English accent, it does also point to this idea of kind of a global economy and global corporations, so yes, the heart is America, but you do feel, I think, in a good way, the multicultural nature of corporate takeover.

I agree with the ideas of globalization and the multicultural aspects you speak about, and I haven’t read the actual source material, but I know you worked with the original author, Iain, to adapt the book into a film. I was wondering about Terrence’s character who is played by Aaron Pierre, an English actor, a Black man and what it means to cast him in contrast with the film’s leads, this White couple Hen (Saoirse Ronan) and Junior (Paul Mescal). Because Foe is set in America where I think there is divide between black and white communities and racism is a big thing, perhaps the undertones the film presents through casting, could be misinterpreted in some way by audiences. Hen and Junior, a White couple living in this haven, their farmhouse, might perceive Terrence, a Black man coming to visit them as a threat to their way of life. Of course, most couples live in this sort of uncertainty, mirrored by the uncertainty we all feel about the future, when an outsider appears they can be perceived as this sort of threat to the couple’s relationship, their way of life. What are your thoughts?

I guess everyone brings to movies their own racial prejudices. This was not by design in any way, shape, or form. We were even looking at people of different ethnicities for the lead roles. I was very open to ethnicity across all the characters, it wasn’t case by design. If you look at Aaron Pierre, he is somebody that brings the right emotionality to Terrence’s role. He is a supreme actor and someone that wanted to play this role because he loved the character. If there were any issues surrounding what you’re talking about, he would be the first person to talk about it. I had his complete blessing and there were never any issues that you’re mentioning raised. I think all the characters have failures and vulnerabilities, all characters are dealt with in a dimensional way, and all characters believe what they’re doing is good and I treated all the characters with love. Of course, Terrance is more the antagonist cause he’s intercepting their life, but Hen did agree to do this experiment with him and there was a relationship so it’s more complex than you think. What I love about Aaron Pierre is that he’s such a beautiful actor and I was really amazed how he brought that emotional complexity to all the choices. He’s definitely an actor to watch there is no doubt.

I loved his performance. Personally, the film felt like it could be adapted for theatre, maybe because it is so character-focused, your three characters share such intense and intimate moments. Could you speak about the art of directing actors in such intimate scenes and how you went about it?

My primary love of filmmaking is the actors and exploring relationships. That’s something that interests me no matter what genre it ends up being. What I loved about this material was that it was, as you say, very sparse and very focused.  The intensity, the tensions, and the mystery had to come from the performance of these characters, so it was fantastic, that was our expansive landscapes, that was all about where we had to get the drama. What was great about this story is that there is a lot of complexity. There’s the story that you think you’re watching and then there’s the story that’s really happening and within that paradigm is very, very rich and high stakes for all the characters, different stakes for all the characters as well. The material itself lent itself to the actors doing some really brave work and making some really great choices, that was really important, it was a very live process. I do a two-week rehearsal period usually and I took all the actors to a remote location in the bush. They wanted us to connect with nature because that’s the very thing that we lose in the story and that is part of me breaking down boundaries and getting people to connect. We had an intimacy coordinator with us who joined us there, and in fact, one of the very first things I did with Paul and Saoirse was the intimacy scenes because each of the intimate scenes in the film are key turning points in Hen’s journey as she reconnects with the past and those old feelings, and each of those major stepping stones towards her happiness. To do those kind of summarised the stages that they go to as a couple so it was really interesting doing that first because it just unlocked an understanding of the story and the journey very quickly and obviously created this beautiful chemistry between the two. We also got to rehearse in this house, all three of us, and it was just a lot of fun. It’s a long process, sometimes you rehearse scene, sometimes you rehearse relationships and sometimes it’s just about hanging out together and through that process you build, you’re basically giving the actors a sense that you want this to feel intimate and real and powerful. When you get that, they just go to these places, they feel safe, and we get those incredible, powerful performances.

In the film there’s this contrast between the warmth of their marriage, their dependency on one another, and the feeling of the isolation and unspoken loneliness, characterised by the location of farmhouse and the bush. I felt torn between these two aspects whilst watching. I noticed in the film there are scenes of Junior working in a chicken factory, and these visuals are revisited throughout. Is this a metaphor about Hen’s feelings because of the similarities in name ‘Chicken’ and ‘Hen’ and those sci-fi elements of feeling trapped within a world they can’t escape, being a part of a system, and being helpless, those parallels are easily drawn on at least for me.

It wasn’t actually. Some people have picked up on that and that’s what we love about the film. We want people to have discoveries around the film and find connections and have discussions. I guess the movie is really unlike a lot of movies these days, the movie is asking you to participate in this film, that is the whole point. What Hen is saying to audiences is, ‘I don’t want to sleepwalk through my life’, when Junior says ‘Are you afraid of dying?’ and she says, ‘Only of not being ready.’ That’s so revealing to me, I don’t want to get old and realise I didn’t live the life that I wanted to live, and I guess that’s something that Is coming through the movie. To reach into audience to get to that place you need to engage people, you need to go, ‘You think this is going to be laid back popcorn movie? It’s not.’ There’s going to be some confronting shit to deal with, you’re going to have your prejudices and assumptions, they’re all going to be challenged and tipped on their head and I think that’s super fun.

Your answers have definitely challenged me in looking beyond the material presented. Foe touches upon ideas or feelings we share as humans of being replaced by something or someone else, the insecurities we feel regarding this. I guess in relation to the rise of AI and things like chat GPT etc, was this something you had planned to be a part of the story as you in adapted the source material for the film?

AI only came to the forefront in our lives during the edit, it was something that came very late in the game, but I guess the AI in our movie is a really fun device to explore this relationship in a way you ordinarily couldn’t. It gives Hen the opportunity to be in a relationship with a version of her husband that she met in the beginning when they were happy and to kind of have that relationship again, even though it’s an AI, is a very fascinating idea, I found that very interesting. 

I think this film looks at a really healthy relationship, what started out as a very soulful relationship, and how overtime imperceptibly they took each other for granted and in seven years they realised, she didn’t know who she was anymore, she felt like he had replaced her with with someone else. I think the metaphorical rhymes with artificial intelligence and the fact that we’re kind of in a weird way in science striving to recreate ourselves is bizarre. I don’t have any answers to that, I guess there’s all the warning signs in this film that feel relevant with the climate, with AI, and the whole point of this is whatever you guys can decide whatever you want about that and have your own feelings. I guess what we’re trying to say is, isn’t there a connection between the way we treat ourselves and our partners, isn’t there a relationship with the state of the world? There’s obviously something wrong and I think that the moral of this story is, we can’t take what is precious for granted anymore because we’ll lose it. That applies to everything and that’s the simple message of the film and then of course all these rich metaphors kind of spill off that and spin off that through the movie so there’s a lot there to kind of digest. 

I noticed the car that Terrence comes in looked a lot like a DeLorean, like from Back to the Future. Was the film’s production design a homage to elements of sci-fi, including the washes of green throughout, influenced by your own experiences with the genre?

Well in the book it was described as a green light that came in and it was the green light that activated him in the opening scene. I really loved that. I like the earthy colour because the farm in a way is a window into the natural world and it’s representative of the relationship, it’s kind of dying and it’s not being farmed anymore and nothing’s alive. It’s this representation of Junior holding on to what he feels is a responsibility to keep the generational farm going and Hen is feeling this huge responsibility, and a victim, I guess, of this patriarchal cycle. The house is like a house of ghosts. It’s always old music of women yearning, and songs and you can just feel the trappings of that. How did we fill the outside coming into this world and colour was a really great. It’s timeless, it’s simple, it’s something that doesn’t date. There was something about colour as an idea and I applied that to the outside world as well with the canola and the pink lakes for lots of reasons, but yeah, we have the green light that gives birth to him and then we have the pink light which kills him. They’re complementary colours [as this contrast] it was just a simple idea, which just felt really interesting and not too complicated. All the soft elements are hopefully, almost like you don’t notice them too much, like all the devices Terrence is using are simple and not too complex. We made it very important that we had one foot in the past, one foot in the future, I find a lot of sci-fi movies just overdo technology and even his car feels already dated, in a strange way. It was really interesting make things feel, even though in the future, almost feel old. I don’t know, I just did it the way that I love it and the kind of Sci-Fi’s I love. In terms of the colour of the planet, it was really this idea that we spend all of this effort to try and live on Mars and right now we are turning the planet into Mars. In a way I wanted people to go ‘What the fuck are we doing to the planet, we’re turning it into another planet.’ In a way that was our ‘other’ that was us going into outer space and looking at a new planet.

That reminds me of, and I’m going to paraphrase this, in the film where Terrence comes in and says, ‘We need to recruit you to leave earth to help fix the world,’ so it’s like conscription but in outer space, but then Hen responds with ‘Why don’t we just stay here and fix our fucked up world?’. I guess with our current world, all the problems within it, things like the climate crisis, it’s quite a relevant quote, the need for us to try and fix our problems instead of running away.

Of course, I’ve been to a lot of audience screenings with this movie and it’s quite unbelievable the response, so anyone from the age of 16 to 28 just fucking they love this movie, and it makes them angry too, because they look at this and go this is the future that I’m adopting, this is what I’m adopting. They feel like Hen, they feel frustrated, they feel like our generation, my generation, has been complacent and even though the writings on the wall, we’re not changing anything. I guess, this film, it hits a nerve for the older generations, it’s putting a mirror up to their behaviour and I think for younger generations it’s actually their voice and I think they can align with Hen in a really powerful way. Yeah, those scenes are literally putting words I think, in the mouth of Hen that come from the generation today like, why are we spending all the money up there when we could be fixing things here? Like it’s crazy.

Words by Addy Fong.

Foe is out now.